fights

[asakiyume]

It was one of the women at the jail who first told me that middle school and high school kids film their fights with their phones and then post them on Youtube. Then last week one of my high school tutees was talking affectionately about one of her younger sisters. "She's so bad," she said, laughing, and showed me a video on her phone of her little sister and another girl fighting. They had hands in each other's hair. "Ouch," I said, "that looks like it hurts!" "She's so bad," my tutee repeated, shaking her head and smiling.

I went online and found other videos, with breathless remarks from the person doing the filming. None of the ones I happened to look at were cases of someone being beaten up (though I'm sure that happens too), and none of them were mass melees (though same). These were ... well, in some cases they seemed like duels: there were seconds hanging back on both sides, and the fight was very short, and then it was like the seconds decided it was over. And in other cases it kind of reminded me of training? Like, instead of boxing or mixed martial arts, you're doing homemade fighting.

And the people filming. They seemed from their voices and their excitement levels so YOUNG. "Come on, hurry up, Celie! Somebody grab my sister!" exclaims one kid, and then, "Come on, fight fight fight, yo!" And in another video, a similarly young-sounding kid (a boy whose voice hasn't changed yet) shouts out advice ("keep your head up"), and when one of the fighters says "I can't breathe!" he calls out for everyone to stop. The girl says, "This asthma," and the kid says, "I fucking hate asthma too."

I know there are way worse fights. I know people get really badly hurt--I've seen scars my students in the jail have. That's not what was going on in the videos I happened to see, though.

I remember one of my other high school tutees, a *tiny* girl, talking about finally having to fight someone to get people to stop taunting her. I couldn't believe that having a fight would do that--I would have thought it would just escalate things. But apparently not.

Me, I'm wrapped in a floor-length robe of ignorance, with a fluffy hat of ignorance on my head. I don't have any summarizing statement to make or judgment to pass, beyond to say---I mean, maybe this is picking up on the high spirits of the people making the videos? and the casual attitude of my student?--but I felt surprisingly un-bad about the fact of the fights. I don't want kids to be ganged up on and beaten up, and I **definitely** think there are other ways to settle differences or strut your stuff. But ... maybe this is one possible way to settle differences and strut your stuff that isn't as bad as all that if all parties are willing? I don't know! See above: ignorance.

a fight

Comments

[green_knight]

I live near a school. It is... kind of disconcerting to hear lots of little voices piping up 'fight, fight, fight'...

(Only happened once, and the teachers didn't seem to break it up immediately. It very much had the _feel_ of orderly hierarchy-determination rather than a wild scrum, but I have no idea what actually happened.)

[asakiyume]

I think I always thought it must be awful; I think my feeling was that it was one kid being whaled on by another kid--I never considered that it might be two willing participants. And I hear a stuffy voice in my head saying, "What does it matter if they're both willing; it's still wrong!" And maybe it is? But I guess I'm not sure, and that kind of surprised me.

[snakypoet]

I was 15. I didn't know (and still don't) what I had done to offend her, but she was waiting with other classmates, who formed a circle as she confronted me. She demanded an apology from me. Startled, I muttered something to the effect that I didn't see why I should. She took deliberate aim and punched me hard in the throat – the voice-box – leaving me winded and mute. One of the other girls asked if she was satisfied; she declared she was, and everyone left except a couple who asked if I was OK. I indicated that I was, and we all left too, in time to catch our after-school buses home. One of the more bizarre experiences of my life. Everyone else seemed to know what to do and consider it right and normal. (The other girl had been one of my best friends; after that, we never spoke again.)

I was brought up non-violent, so this was way outside my experience. I had forgotten all about it until reading your story. It probably isn't such a bad thing for kids to do. Albeit temporarily hurt physically, a few moments only, I was not traumatised – just puzzled.

[asakiyume]

In your case, you had no idea it was coming, and you had no alternative really but to participate. Those things make me angry (and also make me wonder if any of the videos I've seen have involved similar: one aggrieved participant, one who doesn't know what the hell is going on). I think I would have been terrified and angry in your position.

It sounds, though, like it was over when it was over, so that's something. She didn't bother you after that, and her friends left you alone.

Nobody ever laid a finger on me through school. One girl, who for some reason disliked me intensely, hit me with a ball in gym class, and a boy once threw a stone at me, but no one ever punched or hit me.

I'm realizing reading your memory that part of what made me alway think fights were bad was that I linked them in my mind with bullying, with one person being much more capable than the other--which seems like it was the case in your situation. You were not as capable in nature if not in fact--plus, you had no idea what was coming.

I'm also now remembering stories in which kids get "called out" even though--like you--they have no idea why. Again, that's not two willing parties, and I feel much more negative about that, I guess.

In spite of all that, I'm relieved to hear it didn't leave you traumatized. That's a tribute to you!

[snakypoet]

Thanks for making that distinction. It was all a bit surreal to me. Also, everyone else seemed to think I should and would know what my offence was – so there must have been something unwitting, and she must have told the others about it. And – I had much worse going on at home with a crazy, abusive stepmother.

I was bullied regularly in primary school (long before acquiring the stepmother). At playtime, a group of kids would corner me, take me to the bottom of the playground behind the bushes, stand me on a plank over a ditch and knock me off. Until the day I managed to break free and ran crying to the teacher. ('Who should have been out in the yard stopping such things from happening!' said an angry counsellor years later.) After that it stopped. I think I know what I did that time – I was bookish and non-sporty, always coming top of the class, never helping teams win games; and also no-one had picked up yet how short-sighted I was, so I had a reputation for being 'stuck-up' because I couldn't recognise people until they were right in front of me, and appeared to be cutting everyone dead all the time.

When I found out my son was being bullied in primary school, I reported it to his teachers, though he begged me not to and said it would only get worse. The school intervened, the boys' parents were called in, and it seemed to be handled. We did have him and his younger brother taught Tae Kwon Do after that, in the hope it would give them at least an air of confidence that might discourage bullies. Apparently not. As an adult he told me it did in fact get worse for being reported, just as he predicted – but eventually he learned to outsmart the bullies, e.g. by arranging to be running away from someone just as a teacher walked past. It seemed so unfair – he was a kid with lots of empathy and would never have done that to anyone else. However, it hasn't left him scarred either. And he and his brother quite enjoyed the Tae Kwon Do anyhow.

Thanks for sparking so many memories! I'm trying to write memoir these days, so it's useful to be reminded of these details.

[asakiyume]

You're very welcome--thank *you* for sharing. Man, growing up is hard! It's amazing we make it to adulthood.

[gale_storm]

And thank you for sharing your experiences and memories thereof, too! It's stunning how much crap we inflict on others and from such young ages, and just as asakiyume states below, growing up is so hard that it's amazing we even made it to adulthood!

[gale_storm]

Somehow, it pairs up with other things I've been seeing -- just glancing, not seeking -- online with people seeking some way... to... become known by people from outside their usual circles, moving up circles that soound more to me like Milton's circles of hell.

[asakiyume]

Hmmm, *my* curiosity may be that, but the kids themselves seem to be moving in their usual circles.

What other things are you seeing in passing online?

[amaebi]

Where I grew up, groups of neighbourhood kids wold come to an agreement to have rock fights. I had a major macho streak, but also a tremendous fear of "putting someone's eye out," so I would always invent a parental demand for my presence, and run away, so I never new how the rock fights went.

Pairs of lower-income White boys would pretend to kick each other in the groin. Inevitably one of them would connect, and then there would be weeping, wailing, and genuine fighting, and teacher-monitors would break it up. This has informed my imposition of authority with lines of my son's classmates, waiting to get into school in the morning, in which I say solemnly, "No Mayhem!" And I've told the story to participants, who always seem very impressed.

And Black girls would get into the sorts of fights you describe, with rings of monitors around them. I never knew the genesis of those fights. But at my period them incorporated an element due to he large earrings fashionable at the time, which were sometimes ripped out.

[asakiyume]

Gah, the crotch kicking and the earring ripping--and the general possibility of things moving from controlled to uncontrolled fighting. Thanks for reminding me of that reality. Your "No Mayhem" rule for the win.

[amaebi]

Well, but the ring of refs seems to help with that. Though of course they could go Bully. And there are rings that start out as rings of bullies.

[gale_storm]

Yowza! I vaguely remember other girls wearing large earrings that sometimes, in after-school fights, served to slice their earlobes in two.

'No Mayhem.' That is a darn good solemn statement, as others have already said here.

[gale_storm]

'one of my other high school tutees, a *tiny* girl, talking about finally having to fight someone to get people to stop taunting her. I couldn't believe that having a fight would do that--I would have thought it would just escalate things. But apparently not.'

Yeah, people work in really odd ways, and I recognize the behavior you're talking about here. Once upon a time, in a church group with other kids about 14 to 16 years old, I was picked on by another girl who was in my age group, that being about 14, and she would not relent, so ... lets just sum it all up by my saying that I wasn't happy about punching her after she'd started off with hitting me, but it did come to an end after that.

Still and all, I don't mean to say that was the best way to end matters, but ... yeah, if there's any explanation for these sorts of things, I don't have it, and I'm not much sure anyone does.

[asakiyume]

Yeah, apparently being willing to throw a punch really will stop things--sometimes, anyway.

And yeah, it's almost like the question we're dealing with is the human condition, and that definitely has no easy answers.