"I posted about it on Facebook"

[asakiyume]

I came online in 2006, which is much more recently than some of my friends here, but definitely makes me an online veteran compared with, for example, people in my neighborhood, or my family. As those people discover Facebook, they go through a version of what I went through when I joined Livejournal, becoming totally absorbed in online conversations, to the extent that they want everyone they know to be following along with their doings through that particular medium. They'll start telling me something in person with "Did you see about X--I posted on Facebook about it," and I usually have to tell them, no, I don't go on Facebook much, so I missed it. So then they tell me in person.

I realized that for friendships or relationships that I've made in person, I prefer my interactions to be in person (not necessarily face-to-face: might be via telephone or email or letter, but **personal**--not in a public forum). It's not just that I dislike Facebook: I don't want a preexisting friendship to suddenly become contingent on my attention to **any** online site.

It's different for friendships that I've formed online, even if they later become in-person friendships (or add a dimension in some other way): In that case, our friendship grew up through online interaction, and in that case I definitely enjoy and indeed rely on the online interaction.

How do you feel about online and in-person friendships and where you interact?

Comments

[heliopausa.livejournal.com]

Oh, good questions, and complex! Currently my most publicly personal posting is here, on LJ, which is mirrored on Dreamwidth; I'm not on any of the other big sites. I've seen the buzz about Imzy, but won't be migrating (just as I didn't migrate to Tumblr).

I began significant online posting, I mean personal posting, in 2007; one of the people I met then has become a meeting-in-real-life friend (not often, because of geography, but we frequently email, or Skype, or telephone), and I maintain a more sporadic contact with one other, but other friendships from that engagement have drifted away. (The site itself has long since folded.) I think, partly based on seeing that play out, that online friendships are by their nature (in general) evanescent - like Blake's "winged life" to be enjoyed in the moment.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Interesting! Although some friendships online have drifted away, my experience has been that they're as durable as my in-person friendships: many fade, but some really last. And, as with in-person friends, some people can rematerialize after years.

[yamamanama.livejournal.com]

I'm the same way, although I don't really use telephone or e-mail either.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

You're committed to the actual face-to-face!

Do you write paper letters ever?

[frigg.livejournal.com]

For me there isn't much difference, except that I wouldn't ignore a friend exclaiming "OMG! Look at that cute kitten!" in person, as I sometimes tend to do on Facebook - except of course if they address me directly. ;)

Seeing how I met both my husband and my best friend online, I might be biased, though.

On the other hand, I don't have the impression that my friends expect me to be up to date with everything they post to their Facebook wall. So like you, they'll ask me if I saw it on Facebook (which to me isn't much different that asking me if I've heard about it somewhere else), and if not, they'll tell me about it.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

*Nodding*

Thinking about it, I can see how asking "Did you see..." can be a polite thing, too, because you don't want to repeat yourself if the person already *has* seen it. I do this myself, because I can never recall what things I've said to what people.

[dulcinbradbury.livejournal.com]

Oh gods... the early days of us all being on LJ & the "I posted about it..."

FB is even WORSE than LJ, in my opinion, because FB curates your feed & there's no guarantee you see anything that someone posts, unless they tag you in it. Since moving mostly to G+ (which has similar problems) and some FB, I don't assume *anyone* has seen something from me. Back in college (I started on LJ pretty close to the beginning. 2001 I think), I'd make the assumption because so many of us were *on* LJ all of the time. So it was sort of a, "I was talking about this the other day (on LJ), is it familiar?" shorthand, rather than an expectation that someone was reading everything.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Yeah; that "is-it-familiar" thing is different and good, I think--it's like I was saying above to frigg; it's a sort of stop-me-if-I'm repeating-myself thing.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

It often seems that everyone's read my stuff online already so I have no news to exchange with them when we meet in person. Which is super annoying.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there's that too! When I first went online and was very voluble, I could feel all played out when I met people in person, even if they hadn't seen the posts.

[dulcinbradbury.livejournal.com]

Also, I *miss* phone conversations. They were much better when everyone had landlines. Now they're just exercises in frustration.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Exercises in frustration because the reception is bad, or because people keep on being interrupted, or other reasons?

(I hate cell phones with a passion, but that's a rant for another day, and also probably as pointless as ranting against the mechanized loom, at this point.)

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

I was really intensely involved in the eighties, during the Genie days, but then everyone in the SF world was at Genie--and I was seeing words in realtime from people I'd only read in books, for the first time ever. People more of less like me! Which hadn't been the case in real life, or when it was, it invariably involved a long, awful traffic-slow drive either way. (Even worse now.)

But after Genie died and the internet was born, people spread out, hopping from social medium to social medium in order to find the one, or the combination, that suited them best. I realized maybe ten years ago that I was not going to be able to follow everybody again, so I just "float" in the spaces I like best, glad to see people when they are there, sad to lose them, but glad to see them if they swim back. Or even flicker into view.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

LJ was my Genie (so to speak), so seeing people drift away was so painful! But I've come around to your way of looking at things.

And wow, I was mind-boggled when I realized here I could talk with people whom I'd only ever admired from afar! Aspiring writers and established ones, best sellers and beginners, hanging out! (It's not that way anymore really, but it was great while it lasted.)

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

You started about the same time as me.

I've never used facebook, I have to admit.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Not the most terrible confession in the world ;-)

[xjenavivex.livejournal.com]

I think part of it for me is what we talk about at the time. FB is less private and so I  not as open. But if I am taxed for time or mental spoons, I go there instead of here. I have some crossover but not much.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Do you prefer certain sorts of interactions with certain people?

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

What I like FB for is keeping in touch with friends and family who aren't local, and I don't see or talk to often. I like seeing pictures of their kids (or grandkids), seeing the interesting places they go, etc. What I dislike about it is how political it has become in recent years. I avoid political posts, mainly because I'm not going to change anyone's mind, so what's the point? I try to post interesting or fun things. I scroll past the political stuff. I don't need to add any anger to the world.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on the anger, and on the belief about changing people's minds. haikujaguar expressed really well what it takes to change her mind, and I know it's true for me (and I suspect many people):

inevitably when someone tries to change my mind by bludgeoning me with facts, I entrench and become more committed to the opinion I have. The only things that have ever changed my mind have been time (to consider without being flustered by people arguing with me), personal observation, experience, and the kindness and conduct of people with whom I disagree. (Whole post is here (http://haikujaguar.livejournal.com/1574678.html).)

[pameladean]

I'm not on Facebook and don't plan to be. My family does share a fictional account with no connections so that when my brother or sister-in-law post dog photos or whatever, we can see them.

David and Eric (husband and partner I don't live with, respectively) are both on Facebook and very kindly call my attention to things if they think I'd be interested, though D can't help occasionally reminding me that I could just get my own account.

As to the wider question, I imprinted on LJ after the demise of Fidonet and of my preferred newsreader for Usenet, and I would have to be forced away from it by some catastrophic event. I keep trying to get into the habit of checking DreamWidth as well, since a lot of people I like very much and would like to be in touch with have settled down there but don't cross-post. Amusingly to me, I sometimes find out about their posts via Twitter, which I took to much more fervently than I ever expected I would, but which I find uncongenial to deep discussion. People do manage it and I do read their linked or Storified threads, but I can't get my head into a place to actually participate in those.

I loathe and abominate the telephone except with intimates, and even then really prefer email.

I met both partners I'm not married to online, and I don't feel that friendships that either begin or stay there are in any way inferior to face-to-face ones. If my husband and I were younger we would undoubtedly also have met and fallen for one another online rather than having to do it through a chance meeting of former Carleton students.

P.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

I don't feel that friendships that either begin or stay there are in any way inferior to face-to-face ones. This is true for me too, but I can understand a need for skinship--which can happen, when your online friends become in person ones, but which isn't guaranteed.

I've liked Twitter more than I expected to, too, though I don't feel as able to "do" it in a meaningful way as I am able to "do" LJ.

[amaebi.livejournal.com]

Interesting question.

As a reader, I think it's more a matter of style and substance than it is of platform, for me. But I see things that resemble old-school Christmas Letter Formal Displays or status change announcements much more often on fb than I do on LJ or DW. (I am on Twitter and newly on Instagram, and formally on G+ but almost entirely a ghost there. Lately I've been pretty ghostly on DW as well, for lack of time. Twitter seems to be very much links and telegraphic conversation. Instagram is of course pretty specifically designed for the presentation of images.)

I don't much care for the Christmas Letter thing except as a pathology.

On LJ and DW, I see all sorts of stuff. Links posts, image posts, opinion pieces, literary stories. That has been true since I went on LJ-- initially as a place to stick commonplace book material I had no immediate use for but thought I might want to use later. (And now I use LJ for Everything.) I see narratives of stress, pain, and disaster on LJ that I don't see on fb except in the form of prayer requests. For me, LJ is a very full, rich conversation space.

fb not so much. I think it's possible on Twitter, but you have to be on a lot and make community, or find a periodically active community to participate in. I do some of the latter, but it's pretty limited.

As a poster, I'm eclectic on LJ, have tended to post about Chun Woo on DW and interact with others there, do links on fb and sometimes on Twitter. Ive just started on Instagram and aside from putting up a video Boy Scouts took (holly berry Sin), I've only tried to make a visible start there.

And I know that none of that addresses the question of live versus online. Which I guess is a distinction that makes no difference to me. In terms of friendship, I'm more interested in hanging out than I am in Activities. Activities are fine with me, but for me they're a form of hanging out. (I admit to not enjoying accompanying people shopping, in general.) And in a lot of ways hanging out on line is easier, more possible, better than hanging out in flesh.

I have to admit that I'm pretty tired of finding out when I'm no longer inevitable or useful to people that it wasn't a relationship. What I do is relationship.

A few years ago I realized that online is where I've had the longest continuing relations of my life, outside family. Which makes sense, given how portable online relationships are. I've found it fascinating and beautiful to accompany people as they encounter new circumstances, change and grow. And I thought, "Boy, when you're living an a neighbourhood for decades, you do relationship with Who's There, and you get these amazing trajectories (ideally)." Online is where I do that.

Answering my online friend asakiyume's question made me realize something new, too. When it comes to conversation, I'm pretty focused on people's thoughts and feelings, not so much the facts of their lives as such. I'd known for years that while most people feel private about their facts, I feel private about my thoughts, when about anything....

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

A few years ago I realized that online is where I've had the longest continuing relations of my life, outside family. Which makes sense, given how portable online relationships are. This works, I'd surmise/suggest, because you put in the time to maintain the connection as online formats rise and fall, and because the people you're friends with do, too. .... I do think some ways of having a relationship can be more congenial than others. I really **like** online relationships; I find them sustaining. But this isn't true for everyone.

I'm trying to think what I feel most private about. I guess my in-person emotional dramas.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

*reads this discussion with interest*

I've been fortunate that many of my friendships began online and became personal (those of people I know, too -- the child currently sitting on me was born to two people who first met online). would say more but child.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

I've known lots of people whose lives changed thanks to online friendships, and several people who found life partners online! So yeah, really there's no barrier between one mode and another. Online is just another way/place to get to know someone.

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

I've had the good fortune to meet in person a lot of people that I've developed friendships with online.

I think, if a conversation/interaction is on a personal level, I prefer e-mail, IM, chat, phone, etc.

If it's a general conversation that others are welcome to participate in, regular online places like LJ or Twitter are good.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think that's how it is with me too.

[ericmarin.livejournal.com]

I was on Facebook largely because of Lone Star Stories, but I found the whole thing a bother after a while. Once LSS shut down, I closed my account and haven't missed it a bit.

I became attached to Twitter for a quite while for poetry-related reasons, but a lot of the tweets that linked to interesting sites gradually vanished in favor of what I found to be rather dull inter-poet communications and cliquish behavior. So, I only monitor Twitter now for issues related to my daughter's interests, rather than my own.

LJ is really the only place I visit fairly regularly now--posting drafts of my writing and checking in on people I care about who still use it.

As far as in-person versus online preferences go, I'm good with either one. That said, most of my friends live elsewhere, and I don't travel often, except for my daughter's activities. My default communication method for friends is, therefore, online or via email.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean by cliquish personal conversations. Even when Twitter is interesting links, I find it hard to keep up with in any meaningful way, because there are only so many links I have time to look at in a meaningful way. Twitter is like social white-water rafting! So much, so fast.

When friends are far away, any method that helps you stay in touch is good, absolutely.

Your work on Lone Star Stories was amazing. To think that you did that all single handedly!

[nipernaadiagain.livejournal.com]

I am kind of (sometimes just reading others, but other times posting also) been online since 1999.

I do dislike FB, yet am on it under different name. I use it to be in touch with children, when they are outside of Estonia and I kept a FB for my mother during her last years of life - she liked it, I just posted photos on it, so that to give others reasons to comment and my mother was able to answer to comments or browse accounts of her relatives/friends on her own.

But, as even if I do add people randomly on FB, it is still manageable to enter each account to see what people are up to.

I do miss the old style LJ, as I liked the longer texts better. Still, my favorites are older Russian Livejournallers, who post about their memories and family stories.

I do not know why English speakers tell much less family stories in LJ than Russians.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

That's really interesting about the differences between the English-language users of LJ and the Russian-language ones.

I get the impression that Americans (and possibly/probably British and Australian English speakers) simply don't give time in their lives for longer posts anymore--it's like they've lost the ability to focus for one reason or another.

In the past I'm sure I read more long-form posts; I don't know what, in my own life, has changed. I think in part (but only in part), it's my sense of where I fit in the community. In the past, there were many, many people active on LJ, so I felt I could read without commenting and it didn't matter (I wasn't failing to participate properly if I did this). But now, when so few are active, I really want to try to support them by commenting--but then that limits how many I can actually actively read.

[siphraniax3.livejournal.com]

I prefer my RL friends because I need that face-to-face interaction and body language to feel like a relationship is complete. On the other hand, most of my RL fans aren't into the things I'm into: fanfic, slash, etc. I don't even think I'd know how to talk to most of my RL friends about it. I need my online relationships to support and complete the part of me that my RL friendships don't. I'm also pretty careful about what I post, nothing very personal. I also have more than one online ID, so I can write and post my fics without the possible consequences messing with my RL. I don't know how many of my RL friends or people at work would feel about my fics. Don't wanna know!

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

It sounds like your in-person friends and your online friends speak to different needs ... which, when I think about it, is true of all friends. You may have one friend who you like to joke about TV shows with and someone else whom you like to go for hikes with, and so on. ... Or, well, maybe not necessarily--some people may like doing everything with all their friends, but I know for me, I do some things with some friends and other things with others.

One great thing about the Internet has been that it lets us find others who share our obscure niche interests that maybe no one in our physical neighborhood has ever even heard of. I *love* that about the Internet and am so grateful for that.

[khiemtran.livejournal.com]

I guess one thing I've noticed is that I'm far quicker to share things on fb than in face-to-face conversations (except for important or personal things of course). If someone asks how my weekend was, I'll usually wait for a prompt or two before going into detail, just in case the person I'm talking with doesn't have any real interest in sailing/paddling/fishing/bird watching. On fb, of course, it's open slather.

I guess part of it is the social contract that on fb, you can always scroll past without engaging (or click the hide posts button), but it's rude to do that face-to-face.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

And it's interesting that we've developed these protocols and rules organically--no committees, no consultative briefings; it all just ... happened.

You explained so concisely (and so accurately, to my mind) why it is that we have to be more cagey and full of small talk in person: because people can't just scroll by! ... People have sometimes criticized online interactions as lacking in commitment because people can just scroll by, but on the other hand, the fact that we're not able to do that in person means we have to fill up time with small talk and evasive polite conversation, which can be just as alienating. Friendship is just friendship, I've concluded, regardless of where it's enacted.

[syomsong.livejournal.com]

I´ve felt very sad reading FB. I think now I know - by reading between the lines - who those people really are. The way they wish to be seen, it has been amazing, revealing, frustrating. Sometimes I may cry, reading some update.

Earlier, those I knew IRL, I knew through my own experience and senses.

I can totally relate to all you write above.