asakiyume: created by the ninja girl (Default)
[personal profile] asakiyume
I've had a number of things simmering on the back burners of my mind, and one of them is the "Grease" phenomenon: stories in which a socially conforming character transforms into something (supposedly) excitingly transgressive to make a romance work out--as in the musical Grease. The girl changes completely; the boy, not at all. (The genders can be reversed, though, as in stories in which a manic pixie dream girl stories transforms someone who's supposedly, or actually, stodgy or straitlaced or conventional into something marked as better or more exciting.)

It seems to me that this is obviously because in the minds of the storytellers, one character's stance is desirable and the other's isn't, and so it's right for the one with the undesirable stance to change. At one time, this led to stories where the love of a good woman converted a bad boy--she wasn't expected to become a rowdy lawbreaker; the transformation was all in him. That was equally tiresome. But by now it's switched so it's the other way around.

In any case, however the change goes, and whatever traits are favored, it bothers me when love is depicted as requiring suppression or erasure of characteristics that make a person who they are and adoption of new characteristics.

Love does change people, but stories that give me the impression that the happiness of the couple is based on one person repairing themself, while the other person changes not at all, are VERY UNSATISFYING. If two people are genuinely in love, aren't they most likely to both change in ways that make the love stronger? One partner helps the other get over timidity and learn to be more adventurous, and meanwhile the adventurous partner is learning the pleasures of close observation, which they hadn't done much of before when they'd been rushing from one adventure to the next.

That's the pattern I prefer.


Date: 2016-08-09 04:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heliopausa.livejournal.com
Yes - or the Taming of the Shrew. :( (Petruchio as manic pixie nightmare.)
I think the problem is that the other story is a long, slow one (i.e.which wouldn't fit in a movie-length). I'm trying to think of a successful example - a novel, or a very long television series, would have a better chance.
Edited Date: 2016-08-09 05:03 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-08-09 11:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
think the problem is that the other story is a long, slow one--Yes, I agree, and that's a whole different type of experience. You can't ask a fairy tale to do what a nineteenth-century novel can do.

With fairy tales, true fairy tales, at least the "bad" characteristics are broad enough that I don't mind seeing the change be all one sided... and actually, when I think of it, in fairy tales, characters don't change much. The simpleton stays a simpleton, but his good characteristics--kindness to strangers--earn him friends and allies who help him win the hand of a beautiful princess. The curious princess is punished for her curiosity, but she doesn't lose it, and her resourcefulness results in her saving herself and getting a prince. That's a more realistic model!

Date: 2016-08-09 11:11 pm (UTC)
marycatelli: (Default)
From: [personal profile] marycatelli
Yeah, fairy tale characters seldom change, generally because they are very flat.

OTOH, in both Tangled and The Princess and the Frog, both the characters had to change for the romance to succeed.

Date: 2016-08-09 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
When you say The Princess and the Frog, do you mean Disney's film? That one was really good for both characters changing, I agree.

Date: 2016-08-10 11:24 pm (UTC)
marycatelli: (Default)
From: [personal profile] marycatelli
Er, yeah, what else?

I mean the folk tales are either "The Frog Prince" or "The Frog Princess."

Date: 2016-08-10 11:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Sorry; I don't know what I was thinking....

Date: 2016-08-09 12:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amaebi.livejournal.com
Manic pixie nightmare! YES!

And now that I think of it, all that "I will mess with you ha ha I'm such a wag" is exactly the aspiration of a lot of very, very nasty young men.
Edited Date: 2016-08-09 12:25 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-08-10 04:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heliopausa.livejournal.com
:( Very nasty ploy indeed.

Date: 2016-08-09 03:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
Pride and Prejudice :-)

Date: 2016-08-09 03:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Pride and Prejudice is perfect because both people come to change **gradually**, and that change includes profound regret on both parts.

Date: 2016-08-10 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heliopausa.livejournal.com
Yes! Oh, clever Austen! (and you, for thinking of it!) She leaves open room for further change, too, for both of them.

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