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I arrived at the post office today as a postal worker was bringing a wide, low rectangular box out to a car. The box had holes, and I could hear peeping. As we both walked into the building, I asked, "Were those chicks?" And indeed they were.

The post office was very quiet at that time of day--except for cheeping and peeping! From the back room.

"I know I can't go back there," I said, "But can you take my phone back and take pictures?"

Well, he did better than that. He brought out a box of ducklings...

ducklings stick their head out of a cardboard carrying container

ducklings stick their head out of a cardboard carrying container

and then came a box of chicks!

baby chicks packed for shipping in a cardboard carrying container

baby chicks packed for shipping in a cardboard carrying container

"I guess these are all spoken for," I said wistfully.

"No, they're mainly going to tractor supply stores," he said.

But even though B'town is a right-to-farm community, I live in a neighborhood with a homeowner's association, and sadly, poultry is not allowed. We talked about backyard chickens, the price of eggs and the cost of feed, and homeowners associations.

I love my post office and the USPS generally. [That is your veiled political commentary for the day]

Current Music: Grupo Socavon de TImibique: Quitate de me escalera

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From:

Awwww! :o)

From:

sweeties ^_^

From:

ysabetwordsmith

One of the things people need is the right to meet their own survival needs, in this case, the right to grow their own food. It is increasingly banned in the places where people live, and that's a problem. When the vast majority live in urban areas, banning food production there runs up the hunger rate.

HOAs are generally human-hostile, Earth-hostile, and cause a lot of other problems. Helpful things they routinely ban include leaving lawns unwatered, leaving lawns unmowed, replacing exotic grass with native plants, replacing exotic grass with a xericulture landscape, and drying laundry on a clothesline -- all things that would help both the biosphere and humans. The exact things people are encouraged to do in the face of climate change.

From:

100 percent agree. Fortunately this particular HOA does *not* do most of that stuff (I have a clothesline, my lawn lawn is allowed to be wild, etc.) It's very live-and-let-live. But they do have the ban on livestock, and it would be great if we could get rid of that.

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ysabetwordsmith

The solution for that is Let's You And Him Fight. Check your locale for Earth-friendly and climate change organizations. Also check your state's programs and advisories for things people should do. Compare those with your HOA rules and make a list of conflicts. With the livestock issue, check organizations that work against hunger. Your objective there should be small livestock such as hens (not roosters) and rabbits. Then go to those other orgs and say, "I'd love to do what you ask, but this HOA bans it. You'd get more people following your instructions if you made the HOA stop preventing them from doing so." It's a lot easier to take down an HOA for another organization than for an individual.

An alternative is to recruit neighbors who also want to change the rules, and attempt to break into the board that makes those rules. This is a lot more work and a lot lower chance of success, but some people prefer it.

From:

I should have said "we" rather than "they" because I'm actually a member at large *on* the board. I can bring it up. We talked about it back a while ago when someone had ducks. No one complained about them, and no one on the board is into intervention for intervention's sake, and most of us love the idea of backyard poultry. (How did we end up with these rules, then, you ask? We moved here and they were already in place...) The duck people eventually stopped keeping ducks, and no one else has had any backyard livestock since. (One person has a pig, but it's a mainly indoor pig.)

If we get rid of the rule, though, we wouldn't be stuck having to try to enforce it if someone *did* complain.

From:

sovay

The duck people eventually stopped keeping ducks, and no one else has had any backyard livestock since. (One person has a pig, but it's a mainly indoor pig.)

Dismantle the inherited rules! Ducks for all!

From:

DUCKS FOR ALL!

I've got some stuff for making protest lino prints. Maybe one can be DUCKS FOR ALL (although as I said to

ysabetwordsmith, since in this case I'm actually *on* the board, probably I should just .... propose the change).

But lino prints! But ducks for all!

Edited (correct user name, close the damn parens) Date: 2025-04-16 09:17 pm (UTC)

From:

osprey_archer

If everyone on the board is fine with ducks, it sounds like it might be as simple as proposing the change in this case, yeah!

From:

You would think, but to make a chance to the covenants actually requires getting people in the neighborhood to vote in favor, and people just ... don't want to be bothered by stuff. But maybe we could get a majority to sign on. I did get a majority of people to sign on to a letter to stop having plastic-wrapped advertising circulars dropped in the driveways (so. much. litter. and wrapped in plastic. and on us, the people who live here, to throw them away).

Worth a try, anyway! Worth pushing for :-)

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osprey_archer

People may get excited about changing that part of the covenant real fast if Trump tanks the economy...

From:

As a very gloomy copy editor, may I suggest replacing the "if" with a "when" ...

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sovay

But lino prints! But ducks for all!

If you make that lino print, I would like to commission one.

(And may the change just go over with the rest of the board. [edit] And the neighborhood! Who does it stress to have ducks around?)

Edited Date: 2025-04-16 09:26 pm (UTC)

From:

First lino print will be for the post office--I will send you one.

From:

sovay

First lino print will be for the post office--I will send you one.

*hugs*

From:

Re: who it stresses, who indeed??

But really there's no universal consensus about behavior, and some people can be nosy, crabby, blah blah blah. \

e.g., no permanent structures are allowed to be built on the common property, but some kids build a fort. Someone complains. That kind of thing.

Or people complain about dogs barking (well gosh people, dogs do bark! ... but you can argue, maybe rightly in some cases, that a dog shouldn't be left unattended for long periods, plus some hours are quiet hours, etc.)

Everyone on the board is a volunteer, and no one wants to be police. Ideally, people would sort these things out among themselves--have a conversation with each other. But that can be hard... so they want the board to be the heavy. Unless they're the ones the board is being a heavy against--then they definitely don't.

The neighborhood is about 143 households. It runs ... the complete political gamut. So there's that, too.

From:

sovay

Everyone on the board is a volunteer, and no one wants to be police. Ideally, people would sort these things out among themselves--have a conversation with each other. But that can be hard... so they want the board to be the heavy. Unless they're the ones the board is being a heavy against--then they definitely don't.

That part sounds the roughest.

From:

Yeah, it makes me see in a very intense, right-up-close way how this society has somehow bred people to expect someone else to whisk away their problems. Not everything is someone else's duty to fix! Like, do you really WANT that level of policing in your life? But people are afraid to talk to their neighbors, I think. Maybe because we don't know how to ask people for things? Or how to express something negative ("I'd like you to stop revving the car engine at 6 am")? Maybe because we assume not only that they'll just answer F-you, but that also they'll then retaliate? But if it's true, what does that say about us all? ... Okay, that was longer than I meant to go on...

From:

kore

But people are afraid to talk to their neighbors, I think. Maybe because we don't know how to ask people for things? Or how to express something negative ("I'd like you to stop revving the car engine at 6 am")? Maybe because we assume not only that they'll just answer F-you, but that also they'll then retaliate? But if it's true, what does that say about us all?

....yeah. That.

From:

It's a bad place to be as a society, but frankly, I'm not sure I've been in one that had a better way of solving things... seems like it's just HARD.

From:

kore

Yeah, I was thinking about connection, bc not one of our neighbours (including the building manager who lives right next door) stopped in to see how T was, or even said "Glad you're not dead in a ditch!" in passing. We've gone on walks, and I know ppl were in the building when he got lifted DOWN FIVE FLIGHTS OF STAIRS by all the paramedics in the world, bc three people were impatiently right on our heels, lol. (They did not ask what was happening or express well wishes at all.) I don't think they dislike us, tenants here are just kind of isolated. I think it really started during the pandemic and never let up. Then again it might be just Seattle chill, except when I was commuting there were certainly lots of chatty bastards at the bus stop. But that was pretty far back.

Edited Date: 2025-04-17 04:05 am (UTC)

From:

I'm really sorry :( I wish for you guys a lot more warmth and support than that shows.

From:

sovay

Okay, that was longer than I meant to go on...

It makes sense to me that you are thinking about communities as microcosms of society. Does the one you live in allow for non-police-like actions like mediation instead of the options being heavy or nothing?

*hugs*

From:

It's constrained by the imaginations and personalities of the people involved, but even so: yes. So far, in spite of the things I've complained about, it's done (from my perspective) more or less all right.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Then you're in a much better position than average and have more options.

I would say, look at the rules and ask why they are there. Most people in an urban area don't want too much noise or smell. But banning "livestock" isn't the only way to achieve that.

* You can rule out obvious things like full-size cows and horses. But there are now miniatures of both that are goat or even dog-sized. Also miniature goats which are even smaller. Geese might not be a great idea because they really can get loud, but on the other hand, they do that because they fill the role of guard animals which you may or may not need. Ducks are an excellent choice. So are hens. Roosters are often banned because they crow. Guineas are fairly quiet and eat ticks. Quail are so small they can be kept indoors. Rabbits live in hutches, so do guinea pigs, both are great urban livestock. Bees not only produce honey but pollinate food plants. If you research something like "urban livestock" or "raising food animals in town" then you can find lots of resources from other people who have explored these issues.

* You can also switch between banning "livestock" to addressing specific nuisances such as noise or smells. That means as long as nobody's causing a problem, you don't need to get involved at all.

* Do talk about the condition of the world, your town and state's recommendations, and your stance as a group.

* Consider what will make less work for you. Every rule on the list is something you have to bother with if it comes up. Whittle down to the ones you really need and it'll save a lot of hassle. If you inherited a set of rules, they may no longer serve you. The idea of overhauling everything at once may be unfeasible, but you could examine one old rule per meeting and ask, "Do we need this rule in our community today?" then delete or modify it as needed. Clearing out the cruft will make your job easier.

From:

I appreciate your good energy! Will use it to propel me forward :-)

From:

ysabetwordsmith

I wish you luck with it!

At this time in the world, people need the ability to grow food, and for neighbors to take care of each other.

A couple other options occurred to me:

* If your neighborhood has some common space, you might see about setting up a community garden or henhouse there, instead of separate bits in people's yards. This often makes it feasible to grow things that wouldn't fit in a smaller yard.

* If your neighborhood really isn't comfortable with livestock, consider a local food pantry instead.

From:

I would like a box of ducklings.

From:

They are so appealing!

From:

light_of_summer

Yay for ducklings and chicks! \😀/

I regularly read a couple of tumblr blogs written by women who either own or help out with livestock. They also post about a lot of other things, but tags can help with finding the livestock-specific posts. If you'd care to have a look, they are:

bomberqueen17 (who helps out on her sister's chicken, turkey, and pig farm, notably including doing chicken and turkey processing after slaughter), and

kedreeva (who raises and breeds peafowl and coturnix quail and fancy mice, mostly for pets, but I think also somewhat for meat and eggs?)

I've found them both very interesting to read. Let me know if you'd like tips for reading while getting around at least some of tumblr's attempts to make people create an account and log in.

bomberqueen17's #farm life tag

archive of kedreeva's #peafowl tag
archive of kedreeva's #quails tag
archive of kedreeva's #mice tag

From:

light_of_summer

Belatedly: And YAY for the workers of the USPS!

From:

Definitely definitely!

From:

Oh wonderful; thank you--I'll take a look! (I have a [pretty much inactive] Tumblr account, so I'll be able to get around with no troubles, I think.)

From:

rachelmanija

AWWW. Those ducklings are so cute!

From:

Right? The one in the back definitely looks like its egging the one in the front to make a break for it!

$umadoshi: (fractal 01 (enriana from obsessiveicons))$

From:

So cute!

From:

And they sounded as cute as they look!

From:

osprey_archer

Look at those DUCKLINGS!

I also live in a neighborhood where poultry is not allowed. I don't even particularly want poultry (although I'm sure my cats think the ducklings would make delightful playthings...) but I feel a bit crabby when I think I CAN'T have it.

From:

I would enjoy a couple of chickens... though with all the coyotes and bobcats around, would I really? Would I, who turned over my shed to squirrels rather than engage in proactive maintenance, actually build a chicken house and take care of the chickens? Maybe they're better in theory than in practice.

But bees. What about bees? Maybe I could do bees...

I should see how people feel about removing that restriction from the covenants, though.

At least I can have the laundry line! I know that's something you can't have. How large is your association? Maybe people would be willing to change and permit laundry lines...

From:

osprey_archer

Right, I like the *idea* of chickens, but feel doubtful that I would actually enjoy the maintenance. The cats may be the extent of my ability to look after a living creature!

I think you would be an amazing beekeeper, but this is based purely on vibes, as I have a very vague understanding of the actual mechanics of beekeeping. But you'd be great at telling the bees all the family news, at least.

The association actually has a meeting on May 6, so I should saunter over and test the waters. For the moment I've been drying everything on the drying rack + the upstairs bathroom shower curtain rod + my metal bedframe, which works fine, and might be better in cold weather than an outside laundry line in fact... but there's something about sun-dried clothes in summer, you know?

I wonder if I could put the drying rack on the patio and argue "Well it's not a laundry LINE" if anyone argued.

From:

The notion that laundry lines are unsightly is such nonsense--and/but even if one is offended by their looks, in this era it's just such a commonsense good thing to do. But yes, in terms of rules lawyering, I think your drying rack would be totally fine! It's not a line! It's a rack!

From:

osprey_archer

One could argue that a laundry line is very attractive, in fact! Fresh clean clothes rippling in the breeze! And a pleasant indication that the place is safe, too, as no one is afraid of their laundry being stolen by marauders.

From:

TOTALLY agree.

From:

sovay

I love my post office and the USPS generally. [That is your veiled political commentary for the day]

*hugs*

We raised ducklings for a couple of years when I was in elementary school. I have many affectionate memories of their peeping and their tiny inquisitive bills and tiny soft-webbed feet.

From:

When I was in second grade, one of the second grade teachers always incubated some. It was SO FUN to watch them hatch.

From:

missroserose

This is a small delightful thing that was much needed today.

Allow me to return the favor? https://www.tumblr.com/nikniknikin/781021869046431744

❤️

From:

Oh I LOVE that! SOOO clever, and I love the choice of things shown. Thank you!!

From:

I hope they are going to good homes!

From:

I certainly do too!

From:

kore

Fuzzy babies inna box!

Also the USPS is awesome and I hope it survives and thrives. Somehow.

From:

Fuzzy and somehow INDOMITABLE babies inna box :D

(And Amen...)

From:

*gasp* So CUTE! And fuzzy! With little tiny bills!

At one point I rented a room in a house where the landlords kept backyard chickens (hens only, no roosters allowed by the town laws). The chickens were charming, but also annoyingly noisy with their constant bawking and cackling. Currently much happier with no chickens, and my own birds to cheep at me. :)

From:

Aren't they just so cute?

But yes re: chickens. There is a three-dimensional and multisensory presence to real chickens that's quite different from conceptual chickens.

From:

http://lotuslandfineart.com/velvetrope/

That was quite the treat!

From:

^_^

It was an auditory one as well as a visual one. The sound of all those little cheeps! So cute.

From:

ckd

Presumably postage for the chicks was cheep, and for the ducks the sender simply put it on their bill.

From:

Ahahaha, this made me laugh at 2 in the morning, when, admittedly, my resistance is low.

From:

mallorys_camera

Chickens are quite lovely creatures. And intelligent! Too bad about the HOA restrictions. I think you'd really like them.

From:

Maybe the HOA restrictions can be changed--I can bring it up. Though it's one thing to daydream about having chickens and another thing to actually have the care and responsibility of them. They'd need a place to stay at night! I'd have to make sure it was warm in the winter, etc. But I think it would be lovely to have chicken friends, and fresh eggs, and chicken poo is excellent fertilizer, once you age it.

From:

DUCKLINGS <3 CHICKS <3

From:

SUCH CUTIES!

From:

This is all lovely, but I have to admit that my very first thought was, "DUCKLING-POWERED TRACTORS!"

P.

From:

Hahaha, never mind horsepower, we power our tractors with DUCKLINGS. "Why Josiah, I have to tell you, a 50 horsepower tractor just don't cut it against a 25,000 ducklingpower one."

From:

LOL.

*Deafening cheeps in background*

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asakiyume

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