asakiyume | Noon and Midnight Lands

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Noon and Midnight Lands

Poor Noon and Midnight Lands: I really doubt it’s going to find an agent. It’s been glanced at by a number of agents, and it’s not something any are wild about. Or perhaps it’s something they think isn’t right for the market, and if that’s the case, they may well be right. I had the good fortune to have an editor at a quite respectable publishing house look at it, and although she kindly said that she “read with interest, as it is imaginative and nicely written,” she went on to say, “Regretfully in the end I'm afraid my enthusiasms aren't strong enough to support a publishing offer.” So if any agent were to fall in love with it, perhaps they’d have an uphill battle persuading a publisher to take it.

I could change it to try to make it more palatable to the publishing world, but I don’t want to. If I’m going to spend time on a novel, I’d rather start a fresh one. And The Noon and Midnight Lands, just as it is, is the story I wanted to tell. Then too, even if I did revise it—made it start more expeditiously, removed the our-world main character so that it wasn’t a crossover fantasy, etc. etc.—it still might not appeal.

But meanwhile, in some ways, I feel really blessed in the success I’ve had with it. The people who have read it seem genuinely to have enjoyed it, which has delighted me no end. They have liked the world the way I liked the world—it seems like it’s been real for them, the way it’s real for me. Opening up new worlds for people—well, it’s wonderful.

Which is all by way of a preamble to say that I’ve set a deadline for how long I’m going to try hunting for an agent for this book. And if I don’t find an agent by that date, then I’m going to find a way of making the story available online—after first registering my copyright. I’ll probably do some combination of offering it free and charging for it, but I haven’t really thought that far ahead.

For me it’s not either-or with regard to non-traditional and traditional forms of publishing. I have no qualms about doing a little bit of everything.

And, too, consider this list of best-selling novels of 1910. How many works are familiar to you? How many authors’ names do you recognize? There are a few well-known works and well-known authors, but there are also lots that I bet I'm not alone in not knowing. This isn't to say they aren't good--they may be wonderful. They were certainly popular at the time. But now... forgotten.

Then there’s the artist and and poet William Blake. He eked out a living as an engraver, self-published his stuff, and we still remember him today.

…not that I’m ever going to be a William Blake. It’s just good to remember that there are all kinds of ways of doing things, and all kinds of measures of accomplishment.

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If you do publish it online, make sure to put a paypal link on the site, so that your adoring fans can choose or choose not to donate to the cause of you drinking more coffee and writing more novels.

will do!

Seconded.

Third!

If you want to publish from lulu
which is a good one, and can involve
amazon sale, retaining rights to close
down the book and give it to another publisher
until you isbn it, may I recommend a
friend in alaska

barbarakelley
who has formatted and prepared several
manuscripts into lulu books. she is
also a good person whose journal come
to think of it you would enjoy in any
case...

Edited 2009-01-11 16:33 (UTC)

Thank you! It's all early days yet, but I'll bear it in mind--and take a look at her journal, in any case.

Ah, I see now what you were talking about! How exciting!

Yes! It makes me feel happy--either way, I end up feeling positive.

I find even the title delightful, enigmatic, delicious!

Thank you!

I agree with you very much about the problems/quirks of publishing. There's no guarantee of the future, success doesn't necessarily mean anything other than money and contemporary acclaim, etc. Writing full time sounds awfully fun in so many ways, but the pressure of writing 1+ books per year doesn't guarantee anything but that, you know? Blake, or Lovecraft, or Mary Shelley, etc. -- we value them for a fairly small corpus of works.

Cherie Priest and John Scalzi (each in different ways, if I remember correctly) succeeded because they posted their novels online

--and I don't mean to dump on or diss traditional publishing, I hasten to add. It just seems likely that traditional publishing's not right for this book... but I'd still be willing to try the process again for a different book.

... and my book may also just not be much good; that's quite likely too. But people can enjoy not-very-good books, as well, I figure :D

*stares at the lists*
These were the best sellers?! I had a phase in my life where I went gaga over Pollyanna, Gene Stanton Porter and F. H. Burnett (the only people I've read on the list, and even then it was because I combed second hand bookshops and interlibrary loaned across the country for their works) but even then I realized they were weak books...I suppose the equivalent of today's Twilight? Pollyanna is ridiculous. I loved it, but it's ridiculous and I never reread it. Porter is insane. She's a compelling writer, but her plots are soap operas. Laddie made me wince, and other than her massively famous classics Burnett is no better.
anyway-
please let me know when Noon and Midnight Lands goes up. I'm really excited to read it (especially with that title! it's so delicate and evocative).
A lot of my favorite books are the ones that are going out of print/are out of print and not very famous. There are lots of real gems out there, but unfortunately the public likes a certain type of book (Pollyanna and Porter and Burnett all wrote in the same saccharine mode) so self-publishing makes a lot of sense.
I adore your lj, and your short stories, and I'm so excited to read something longer by you!

I liked Pollyanna, and I adored A Little Princess by Francis Hodgkin Burnett--I won't even apologize for them! Pollyanna I only saw as a play, but I thought it was very good, and not too saccharine at all, and A Little Princess was a ripping good yarn, in its way, and provided me with a wonderful role model--I wanted to be as kind as Sarah, and as full of fortitude. Maybe they are saccharine by today's standards, but I love them!

It all depends on what you want out of writing, too. And it's not like I'll turn my back on traditional publishing, even if I do publish this online, myself. I have another novel that might be more suitable for commercial marketing...

Mainly, I just want to share my stories with as many people as I can!

I'm really glad you like my LJ--that makes me so happy! I feel really glad, too, that you let me share your life through yours.

Ahhh, I should have clarified. I loved A Little Princess and The Secret Garden by Burnett
Little Lord Fauntleroy is what I'm apologizing for. (I have a sneaking affection for it.) Then there was The Land of the Blue Flower and this other book about a homeless girl who sees rainbows and they were written in a very moralistic over the top tone that's really hard to take.
By the same token, I really enjoyed A Girl of the Limberlost but Laddie and um...the one about a girl who ~~stalks~~ loves the violinist were also over the top.

[I've also gotten into the habit of apologizing for them, because I adore books from that time period. There's a sweetness to them that isn't present in children and YA fiction today- the prevailing theme in YA seems to be trauma- ...but I also feel like some of them are so fluffy they become ridiculous.]

I am all over asakiyume novelage. :)

Oooh, a chance to admit in public about loving The Little Princess and the Secret Garden! I read them over and over again even beyond childhood (I have beautifully color-plated illustration editions. Once was enough for Little Lord Fauntleroy (though I can remember exactly what the book smelled like and what the room where I read it looked like), but when I read them to my boys (the first two), they thought they were waaaaaaaaaay too syrupy (they also found Meg in A Wrinkle in Time to be too whiney). Times have changed, or maybe boys are just different.

But as far as publishing goes, I don't see any reason to be a purist. *I* too would love to read your novel, and if I can't pull it off the shelf in a bookstore, I'd be happy for other options.

It made me enormously happy when several of my friends read my MG novel to their kids, who loved it (my younger son did too, and that's who I was thinking about when I wrote it).

Sometimes it is just time to move on to the next project.

I do love your short stories that I've read here!

(oh, and I realized that my comment might sound like I was criticizing you for saying those works were saccharine--but that's not my intention at all! What I meant to be saying was that, since I, too, like those books, I don't think you need to apologize for liking them.)

Even finding an agent doesn't mean your book will be published - I've had two agents pick up my novels, but never sold any of them. If you put your novel on line, please be sure to tell us where - I'm eager to see it! The PayPal suggestion sounded good. All the best!!

Oh I know! Once you have an agent, the whole thing starts all over again!

And as I say, I already know that at least one editor wouldn't take it, so... that's not a brilliant start.

(Love-Love-Love this painting of yours, by the way!)

So what you've been posting about with the pictures and the gorgeous prose is for a book? Is it more like a poetry/picture book than a novel? If so, one of your other options could be to write a fiction novel and filter that magical winter prose into the story. :)

No--this stuff I've been writing here is just daily stuff. The Noon and Midnight Lands is a fantasy novel. Here's the query letter that

jmeadows helped me write for it:

Thirteen-year-old Ara meets Kerrin, a boy who's never seen night. He comes from a place where the sun is always up, a land of perpetual daylight, where people never sleep. He's in our world to learn about darkness and night, because it’s into a land of eternal night that his father, the king of the daylight lands, has vanished.

Ara introduces Kerrin to the sounds and feel of darkness, and in return, he teaches her about magic. Soon after, Ara travels with Kerrin back to his world, where all times are places: dawn, daylight, twilight … and night. To learn the fate of Kerrin's father and revive the daylight lands, they'll have to journey through these lands and weave new ties of trust between the people there—while avoiding the snares laid by Kerrin’s powerful and treacherous uncle.

(deleted comment)

:-)

Thanks for your support--it will still be a while, but one way or another I will put it in your hands :-)

That sounds like a fascinating premise for a story! Keep sending it out to agents and if that doesn't work try submitting it to some smaller publishers on your own. I'm sure someone will scoop it up!

Ooh! This sounds marvelous! I can't wait to see it!

I can't possibly let down a kitten with a face like that--will get it to you in one form or another.

Hm. This dovetails interestingly with some of the work I've done in theater.

Cool!

It sounds awesome -- definitely something I'd pick up from a shelf. I wish you luck in the publishing area.

Thank you--I intend to keep working at it (the publishing stuff, I mean...)

Ah. I think I know a way to tweak that letter to make it more appealing in today's market.

Tell me by e-mail?

Ooooh--I haven't even read the rest of these comments, but I really really want to read this!

You could always do an audiobook and put it out on Podiobooks.com (http://www.podiobooks.com). They have the donate button as part of the program.

No, I'm very print based! So I'll do it with text, to start with at least. Thanks, though for telling me about Podiobooks--I have a friend who is really into podcasts; wonder if he knows about them.

The title sounds like an invitation to adventure!

Hope you find a publisher by your deadline. If not, doing it online and having interested readers pay, sounds like a good alternative!

It makes me happy to think I have other options :-)

I'll be interested in seeing it when it comes out, in whatever form that might be.

I worked in a bookstore for 15 years, and in my opinion, the publishing industry is between a rock and a hard place, as they say.

If your book is sf or fantasy, you might want to look into Small Beer Press (http://www.lcrw.net/). They are local and very good, if you haven't ever run across them before.

I agree about the publishing industry. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

It's fantasy, but it's YA/middle-grade fantasy, so I'm not sure it would be something Small Beer Press would consider. I do know them! I admire them tremendously and would love to be published by them. I do find them intimidating, though, because they published the marvelous books by Greer Gilman, which set a high standard! I'll see if they publish young people's things, and if they do, maybe I'll give them a try.

I know that Kelly Link has done a collection of stories aimed at the YA crowd, so there's a chance, definitely.

Hey, that's excellent news! (Though I get anxiety attacks thinking of comparing myself with established folks.)

Yes, I love Greer Ilene Gilman as well, and they published the last book of John Crowley's Aegypt cycle as well. But they have also published some incredible new work by authors no one has heard of, and they've succeeded in making a name for themselves. For being a tiny press, they have a good reputation and they appear to be known to those of us that, *cough* know that sort of thing.

Kelly Link has just had her own YA collection of short stories published by...maybe Viking?

In my opinion, YA fantasy is where it's at these days. Hardly anything published for "grown-ups" and marketed in the SF section is something I'd choose to buy--it all looks so formulaic these days (with a few notable exceptions). The leeway in YA fantasy is much larger at the moment, with more interesting and imaginative plots than have been the norm of late in any part of the "genre". Where are all those books that pushed the boundaries of the genre, anyway? Perhaps in a few years, though, those kids who grew up on HP etc. will be the ones who push the adult SF/F market into new directions.

Or maybe I'm just making this up as I go along. One perspective, one corner of Western Mass...hard to say!

I believe YA fantasy is definitely active and good these days too--alas, this particular story of mine doesn't seem quite the ticket--but I will definitely look at Small Beer. Thanks :-)

Well, I hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does, lead the way, sister. I'm pretty sure I'll be in the same boat, seeing my results with shorts.

You're right to not back down from your story for the sake of trying to sell it.

I don't mind changing some things, in some stories. I could even imagining trying to change things in this story--but only if the person asking were an editor, and the end result was going to be publication--and only if the suggestions showed enthusiasm for the basic premise.

I think we're saying the same thing, but I can clarify to say I would make changes requested for publication if they were consistent with the fundamental principles of the story -- if they helped bring the story into focus. "Enthusiasm for the basic premise," yes.

Yup, I think we're on the same page.

If you want to hear positive things about how several editors or agents passing on a book doesn't mean they all will, or about how the waiting game can sometimes be worth it, I can give that perspective ... though either way, the next step--working on the next book while following whatever course you decide to follow for this one--remains the same. :-)

Oh, I believe it! Although it's more than several that have passed on this one--though I haven't exhausted the field yet.

I tell myself all the time about Madeleine L'Engle and how long it took her to get an acceptance.

I have a whole other finished novel that may be more marketable, though it needs some work on its ending. And, I have several ideas for other novels, and one that I've been mulling in my head for a while, in particular. This experience with The Noon and Midnight Lands, though, has given me pause. I do want to *share* what I write, don't want it just to sit on my computer...

I would love to be published in the traditional way--of course I would--because I could reach more people that way. And that still may happen. It may even happen with this book, though I feel less sanguine about it. I figure, I can do both, if it comes to that. I can be shopping around a different novel in the traditional way, and offering this one online.

I'm really, really happy, too, when I see people like you getting published and having success--just like I'm happy when I see

haikujaguar having success--or like when I see Norilana Books going great guns. It's wonderful, all of it.

ETA: "people like you"--what stupid thing for me to say! All I mean, really, is people. "People like you"="people like me"--so when "people like you" get published, it gives *me* hope. Sorry... sometimes I amaze myself with my poor word choice.... hmmm, maybe *that's* my problem.

Edited 2009-01-11 20:06 (UTC)

I got what you meant. :-) It was a big deal to me when I first realized that real people really could do this.

And I love seeing all the different ways real people find to do this, too--I definitely don't think my way is the only one, and only meant to say that that can work, too. :-) (Though how you define "working" is a whole other can of worms anyway ...)

There's another thing to consider--well, two. One is, few authors sell a first novel. If this one got some respect, then you are already way, WAY ahead of most, whose first one gets the pinched nose and dismissal.

So:

set it aside for five years, and then reread it. Could be, your craft will have leaped forward enough for you to see just where to give it a bit more dazzle.

or

Set it aside. It's done, it's what it is. You do not foresee changing it, in which case, you write the next. That one may be the one to get the agent . . . the sale . . . and the audience, in which case, when editor or agent say, "Is there a chance you have anything else ready, until you write your next?" you can say, "Why yes, I happen to have one!"

Both excellent additional things to do.

Is it my first novel if I also wrote one at 15 and submitted to a publisher (and got a rejection)? That novel--written on a typewriter--is in a lockbox in my living room.

... I guess it's my first finished novel since becoming an adult--well, second; technically, I finished Majestico's Pocket Circus before I finished this, though I started this first.

I do think it's quite possible this one isn't very good. I do hope I'll get better with time and practice. But... I guess I want to share this one, even though it's bad, or may be bad. I know, I know... then I'll have hideous journeyman prose out there for all the world to see... but if I do self publish it, let's face it: not that many people will see it. The people who read this blog, maybe, and maybe a couple others? Do you think it would actually hurt me? I mean, i guess someone--an agent or someone--might stumble upon it, read it, and think "she's not very good," but if then I had a better novel, at some point in the future, and submitted it, do you think they'd hold the bad prose of a previous novel against me?

It can--so much depends. Since you're just revving up into serious writing--as opposed to doing it for the past 10-15 years and getting nowhere--why not set this one aside, for now, and work on a second? Just judging from what I've seen of yours, you are learning at a very smart clip, and you might yourself decide it doesn't best represent you, in a couple of years. (And like I said, if you let it rest and come back to it, you might see just what to do to fix it. I told you the story of And Felt Along the Heart and our processes are enough similar that it seems worthwhile to bring that up.)

*nods* It's true; there's no need to "rush to market" (as they say in my other life) with this. Though, like you, I'm not getting any younger... it's harder to follow that advice at 45 than it would be at 25.

Yeah, I hear ya. Maybe give yourself one more book?

How about a bunch of short stories? LOL, no, I'm kidding. *sigh*

I'm just impatient, and I know it's not a good thing. My impatience has caused me problems more times than I can name. I always come up with justifications, at the time, for acting out of impatience, but then, in retrospect, I see how things could have been better if I took the time, waited, practiced, etc.

Well, you could maybe run the short stories behind a lock, and see if you get some good feedback. People are more likely to be polite and only sing praises publicly, and remain silent if they think the thing doesn't work at all, but it's worth a try!

You're right about things posted in public--I never expect (or even want, to be honest) feedback on the journal; when I want feedback, I send stuff to people privately. I figure then they can be more honest--they're not saying something with a bunch of invisible witnesses, they're talking to me privately. I feel more comfortable with that.

That's how I treat comments, too. Unless someone expressly says "Please tell me what's wrong with this and how I can improve it," I tend, in journal comments, to talk about the things I like. If something glaring strikes me, I send a private message.

Well, and here's the thing. Some people don't improve, for whatever reasons. You have been. Really fast. So much so that I will gamble and say when 2012 rolls around, and you look back, you will see marked difference in your craft.

Another thing, I keep trying to figure out how to start a crit community. The thing that holds me back is the usual stuff: nobody wants to spend their time monitoring it, yet who's to see that members aren't just demanding crits but not offering them, and checking to make sure the crits aren't 1) sloppy or 2) irritating rewrites of your material, rather than discussions and reactions.

I'd like to participate in your crit group--I just worry I'd let people down. You know how erratic my time is...

I'm pretty good at not demanding more crits than I give because I have so little material to offer people to read....

Yeah, but you are a natural born editor.

Oh, no... too careless for that...

just an editor by profession--maybe a natural born reader, though.

professional--how did I miss that? Argh. can't even blame the heat.

Wow, that explains your amazingly good eye. All I can say is, the problem would be, if you were in a crit group, everyone would be asking for you, and talk about a busman's holiday.

I'm jumping into the middle of your thread here, but I would be very interested in a crit. group. I've participated before with some very good groups, but that was about five years ago....

I agree with Sherwood. Don't be to hard on yourself, asakiyume. I know of very few writers who got their first books published.

The advice I always hear is: write a book, submit it, and meanwhile, write another book. The balance of your universe does not rest on this one story. The next one you write will be even better, and the next one after that...

I'm not being hard on myself :-)

I know that the more I write, the better I'll get. I don't think that every last thing out of my mouth is diamonds.

... but can we sometimes share things that aren't diamonds... maybe can some things just not be diamonds?

Maybe not ask money for it, even. Just... share it? I've read stuff by novice writers, stuff that wouldn't get published, probably, but that was alive and interesting and fun, even though it had flaws. Yeah, best would be that the person one day, having improved, reworked the story and so made it better, and it got published. But what if that doesn't happen? I'm still glad I saw the story--my life is richer by one story.

No, I know. I didn't mean to imply that you thought everything was diamonds.

I just think...I don't want you to be impatient with this. I don't want you to shoot yourself in the foot before you've even really gotten started.

Like Sherwood said about you just starting out on your serious writing: there's still a lot of time and a lot of room. There's no need for things to happen *now*. You just need to write.

Your books will be shared. Others will read them. You write wonderful stories. But give them time.

:-) Okay--I will take my time.

YA and/or fantasy are not my milieu, per se, as I deal strictly with board books to early chapter books, but ALL publishers are feeling the pinch in a big way right now. There are freezes on publishing new works at more than one publisher. I'm fortunate that my clients are still putting forth new titles, but I am seeing the frontlists cut down by one third to one half as many titles. It may just be that your timing is off.

Agents like to see that you have more than one ms ready to go, but I'm sure you knew that already, so it's good you've got another one in the wings. Work on more outlines, too, and consider an outline for a sequel to TNaML. Publishers LOVE books in series.

And this may be way off track, and I'm sure you already know about SCBWI, but the group that meets in Amherst is one of the most active in MA. It's been so many years since I was a member, I can't remember if YA is even considered a pertinent age group for members' discussions.

I have an idea for a sequel for this! (And an idea for a sequel for the other finished novel I have.) So I'm ready to go on that score.

And thanks for the info about SCBWI in Amherst! It makes sense, with Holly Black being local....

I know

sksperry has had many people go to his site to read Darkside, so you may want to ask him about his experience.

I went through the same sort of frustrating experience with my first book--lots of 'I liked it, but--' comments. I hope you have better luck than I did.

I think I can already safely say that I have *not* had better luck than you :-P
I'll go take a look at

skperry's page...

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Noon and Midnight Lands

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